The Glade 4.0

I cant speak to how the comic book character would act since I'm not as up on it as most here. The Cap I remember was all about pride in his country and doing the right thing for it while opposing it's enemies and working with friends. The iconic example being WWII, during which this is supposedly set. An embodiment of the US, not a tool of it. He is the best qualities of America anthropomorphized into a super hero. So this comment:



doesnt fit. Maybe this is just a move towards more international ticket sales, but combine it with the panels I posted above it's pretty doubtful that is the sole reason. It sounds more like a liberal "one world" with Cap shoehorned in.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

How so? By seeing value in other nations we are shoehorning Cap into a one world thing? It's not a zero sum game. Other countries being awesome does not take away from America being awesome.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Yes. Captain America is about America; it's right there in his name. Seeing value in other nations has nothing to do with it. We don't need to include other countries in distinctly American things.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yes I agree that other nations having huge doses of awesome takes nothing away from the US, but does it make sense to say Captain America isnt so much about America? To downplay his patriotism? Isnt that who Cap is? It just seems silly on it's face. That's what I object to. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure they dont come off as Americans who love their country based on some irrational fear of being seen as caricatured "America, **** YEAH!" stereotypes.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Cap was created in a different era in American history as well. it makes sense that he'd be different somewhat if remade today. He's not even close to my favorite superhero. I'm pretty neutral towards him really... As long as they don't make his origin for the movie too stupid and he beats up people in an awesome fashion I don't care if they make him a Pakistani immigrant.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I wonder if Stan still collects royalties or something from anything? I know Marvel fired him at one point...

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

The fear isn't really irrational (in the sense that the caricatureization will happen, not in the sense that they should care) because a lot of people do precisely that. Any praise of America whatsoever is seen as "****". Patriotism of any kind is seen as bad because well, Dubya!

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's probably true, although I think it's irrational in the sense that anyone called Captain America is going to get that response from the usual suspects inclined to do so. In other words, you're not going to make anyone happy by slapping a UN flavor on to Captain America.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Patriotism isn't necessarily a good thing. it can be, if exercised carefully. However, all too often blind nationalism is confused with patriotism.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Seems likely then that all too often folks can get confused about what patriotism is.

I seriously disagree that patriotism needs be exercised carefully. I'd prefer folks to display patriotism proudly, but then again, I don't think there's anything to apologize for about being patriotic.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Well, that depends. I see absolutely no value in flag waving if your country has gone off the deep end. I see no value in cheering on your country without regard to the things your country is doing.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

The problem is... this movie takes place in WW2, where exactly that was patriotism.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Flag-Smasher, it is all the Latverian's fault you know.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

“A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.” George William Curtis

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Such a simple concept, yet so true; that which we manifest is before us; we are the creators of our own destiny. Be it through intention or ignorance, our successes and our failures have been brought on by none other than ourselves. - Enzo, The Art of Racing in the Rain.

Do you think the "country went off the deep end" in WW2?

Patriotism is all about supporting your country and defending it from folks that would make it less than it is. It's about building it up, making it better and stronger, and keeping others from tearing it down. The more effort someone puts into that the more patriotic they are, and Captain America's efforts put him at the top of the list of patriots.

If all you see is cheering and flag waving, you're either just looking at the surface or you're not looking at patriots.


Seems that way to me too, Khross.

If this movie doesn't show Cap being patriotic, then it'll suck. He's Captain F'ing AMERICA! for crying out loud!

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In time, this too shall pass.

Next thing you know, in a gesture of multinationalism and not deprecating the values of other nations, Captain America will not be fighting Nazis in his WWII origin movie.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

My camel compatriot.... No I do not think we went off the deep end in WW2. But the overtly prideful displays of Patriotism and if you do not support America "eff you" seemed to be the basic atmosphere. To take that away from him (the overly proud American fighting the enemies of our land down to his own dying breath) is to make him as "Captain America" like as my left *** cheek.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I understand... there were 2 quotes I was addressing in that post, other than asking you if you thought we went off the deep end in ww2 I wasn't addressing you, just a fyi.

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In time, this too shall pass.

S'all good. Just clarifying my position.

(and I was posting from my iPod so I could not go back and make sure I was spelling your name correctly... so I had to use a different greeting hehe)

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

We shouldn't have been in WWI or WWII. Nationalism is overrated. Everyone was born in some random country. If I were born anywhere else I might feel just as strongly as any flag waving American as a Pakistani, Burmese, Somalia, or North Korean man. That pride might be baseless, but I'd maybe feel it just as strongly. Most people don't even understand what freedom is in America, giving it attributes like jets, tanks, playing with your kids, and watching Full House.

Nothing wrong with patriotism, but "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." I'm wary of people that drape themselves in the flag.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Yes, we should have been in both WWI and WWII. In WWI, Germany's submarine tactics had killed quite a few Americans, but mroe importantly, they had conspired with Mexico to directly attack the U.S.

In WWII, we got directly attacked, and if you mean we should have stayed out of Europe, Germany was Japan's ally and had declared war on us after Pearl Harbor.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Maybe we shouldn't have so egregiously insulted the Japanese by outright lying to them at Versailles.

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Are you referring to Shandong and the reversal in 1992 1922? Or the Racial Equality Proposal? Or something else?

Edit - Corrected year of the Naval Treaty

Ladas:

Nah, just generally not honoring our agreements with Japan on naval power and the Pacific after Versailles mostly.

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