The Glade 4.0

Because disengage throws you backwards, into either A) a wall or B) another mob. It's utterly worthless when you're soloing; there are just too many mobs out there.

Run/jump/turn is just screwing around, and moving all over the place and may aggro something else as well. It doesn't "take longer" enough to matter; meleeing is better because you're stationary, not worrying about falling, or aggroing something else.

I'm sure you've got umpteen zillion reasons why this is all wrong, but from actually playing, I find that all this fancy crap is just a way to get yourself killed. As far as I'm concerned, keeping melee skills maxxed is worthwhile in itself because you can't play without them. I have no idea how you guys do without, or why you engage in all these fancy tactics just to save a second or two of combat. It takes a lot longer than a second or two to run back from a death because you overaggroed, and it costs more too.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Disengage is Blink for people with brains. Defile? There's a Disengage for that. Cold Flame? There's a Disengage for that. Shadow Trap? There's a Disengage for that. Mounted Opponent you want to kill? There's a disengage for that, too. Jump Turns and Disengage are insanely useful tools for ALL Levels of Content, even end game raiding where aggroing extra mobs is far more problematic.There's a whole quest to teach you how to Kite with Jump Turns and properly timed abilities at 4 second intervals. Perhaps you should do the Rhok'delar quest chain at Level 60 to see what I'm discussing.For the record, even Throwing is maxed on my Hunters despite being a totally useless skill except for soloing Jormungar for the Hodir Daily. Of course, you think learning how to use disengage is "fancy". It's one of the most useful and creative abilities in the game, and I can hit my target with pinpoint accuracy using that ability. I know exactly how far it moves me. I know how far it moves me when I'm at max jump height or near an elevation change in its path. I know how to time it for Sindragosa so I laugh at all the people running while I'm still DPSing during magic pull (same applies to Cyanigosa and the first Boss in Oculus for non raiders).

Of course, Hunters used to have a tree dedicated to melee. It had an ability called Lacerate, which is now Mangle and belongs to Druids. That was the ultimate ability in the tree. It added 3 melee attacks. But, that version of Survival disappeared in patch 1.7 never to be seen again. And good riddance.

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It's funny that you keep referencing your experience actually playing, while degrading Khross's much greater experience doing the same thing.

After I got to 80 on my hunter, I maxed my melee skills. I was bored. I saw no reason to do the same thing while leveling, it was simply never needed.

As for a second or two of combat, it causes you to lose HP. Even small HP losses, over time, lead to needing to sit and eat. Sitting to eat causes a break in what could have been killing.

Strategic use of Viper was plenty for me to never need to med, but it didn't take long of letting myself get hit before I'd need to stop and eat something.

As for disengage/turn and shoot aggroing extra mobs? It's not hard to avoid disengaging yourself into other mobs. And it only takes a pretty small move backwards to get off, say, an aimed or explosive shot. And rarely is that not enough to take an exp mob out.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

No, it isn't. A level 1 starting bow in the hands of a level 80 hunter is going to do comparable damage as a level 80 two hander in the hands of a level 80 hunter with the same gear otherwise.



Common for who? It never happens to me.



(1) If it's almost dead, it's going to die before it gets to you anyway.
(2) those places (where moving around is going to aggro more mobs) are few and far between.



No wonder you can't hold agro. It's the ONLY spec for levelling. Now with that said, the irony is, if you're levelling in Marksmanship or Survival, the damage difference between melee and ranged is even greater (approaching 20-to-30x the dps.) But while levelling, if you're in marks or survival, your pet won't hold agro as a main tank without intense micromanagement. In Beast Mastery, it's almost impossible to pull agro off your pet (and the damn BM hunter pets can solo a +2 elite mob in most cases until well into your 70's.)

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I was never a great hunter, but even I know the hunters do not need to melee.

Anyways, I remember seeing Khross in ZG in greens once to prove a point.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

There really is one simple way to figure this out....

Which weapon would you choose discounting stupid GearScore arguments?

Sharpened Obsidian Edged Blade
Binds when picked upTwo-Hand Sword
715 - 1074 Damage Speed 3.50
(255.6 damage per second)
+146 Strength
+179 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 80
Item Level 245
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 69 (1.5% @ L80).
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 103 (12.56 @ L80).

OR

Icier Barbed Spear
Binds when picked upTwo-Hand Polearm
372 - 558 Damage Speed 3.20
(145.3 damage per second)
(1267 feral attack power)
+62 Agility
+52 Stamina
Durability 100 / 100
Item Level 175
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 61 (1.92% @ L75).
Equip: Increases attack power by 88.

The SOEB has a top end damage of 1074 and 255.6dps, the ICS only has a top end of 558 and does just 145.3dps.......yet, the ICS is the superior hunter weapon because of the "stats".

I never leveled beastmaster, btw. When I actually leveled, I could send my pet in and start attacking. Even if I pulled agro, fights don't last more than 10 seconds so the mob would be dead before it ever made it to me anyway.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

My experience with "huntards" is pretty much what has been said: them rolling on every single melee weapon they can. I mostly play melee classes. And, back in the day, epics were not so easy to come by. In fact, if you had a total of 4 or 5 purples, you were pretty godly. On top of ths, in a 40 man raid, getting the drops you wanted took a lot of patience. A lot. A lot-lot.

Now, imagine a warrior who finally sees a great upgrade to his axe drop after raiding for literally months. And all of a sudden, every hunter comes out of the woodwork and decides to throw down and roll "Need" on it as well.

There is no hunter in the world that can convince me that a hunter's melee weapon is just as important as it is to a melee class. It's complete and total B.S. It would be as if I were to do the same thing on a super-awesome ranged weapon. My melee classes wield them. We do have to use them "sometimes." I have just as much right (using their logic) to roll "need" on it.

But I G.D. know better than to do that.


The other half of the coin of where "huntard" came from was from the simple fact that not many of them knew how to play their class well. This came from the mere fact that hunters were the most played class, so therefore had a higher ratio of idiots.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Fine, you've got umpteen zillion ways to use it. It is not insanely useful at all levels, when you're levelling it's just one technique and there's no particular reason to use it over any other and several not to.



I never bothered to finish it. The quest doesn't "teach" you ****. It's just a frusterating waste of time. There's no need whatsoever to learn those techniques, nor was there any good reason to make the quest so absurd in its conditions. If they put that quest in there in order to teach you that stuff, that indicates a colossal **** on their part as there's no reason you should have to learn any of that unless you feel like it.

By the way, one of the recommended techniques for killing the guy in Burning Steppes back in 2007 was to melee him by kiting him with Wing Clip and then jousting between his enrages or whatever it was he did.

Maybe when I get to level 80 I'll go back and just brute force that quest just for the hell of it.



No, it isn't useful or creative unless you are really into figuring out compex ways to do things that should be simple and straightforward. The only thing its any good for is backing away from other players in PVP. Abilities like that are supremely annoying. They take the place of abilities that could actually be useful to everyone instead of just people who like fancy tactics.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about the concept that just because you want to find fancy ways to run all over the place fighting doesn't mean that's the One Right Way to play, especially when not playing at endgame level of difficulty. Of course, in a lot of the endgame there IS one right way, but that's a whole different issue. Like I said, I have no interest in such things. You seem to ahve the idea that if you only insist loudly enough that my way of doing it doesn't work I'll somehow agree with you despite the fact that A) my way is fun and does work for me B) your way is frusterating and doesn't work for me and C) I'm not having any problems.



Then that's the worst mistake they ever made. Hunter melee SHOULD be a lot stronger than it is. Of course, the tree as it existed was probably half-assed and still didn't boost Hunter melee damage up close enough to ranged, in which case it was probably better to replace it with survival as it is now. Still they SHOULD have beefed up, not reduced, hunter melee power. I'd gladly scrap disengage, deterrence, scare beast and quite a few other utterly pointless abilities for more melee power.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Where did you get this from?



Happens to me all the time, and I see other hunters having it happen, all the time.



Maybe about 25% of the time this happens.



No they aren't. Most quests take place in locations that are anywhere from fairly heavily mobbed, to downright swarming.



No it isn't. Just because it's the spec you levelled in doesn't make it the "only spec". As for "20 to 30 times the DPS" I'd like to know where you're getting those numbers from, especially while levelling. That's why you need to be able to melee, so you're not forced into one tree out of three until you can get a thousand gold together; the tree that's the most uninteresting of the three. I wouldn't go deeper than 11 points into that tree for any reason.

It's not fun for everyone. I don't even particularly like having the pet at all but you have to since its a major class feature. That's actually one of the hidden joys of DKs for me; you can choose to play as a spec that needs a perma-pet, or not.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No it isn't. It's superior the way you play. It's not for me; in fact, I'd pick the sword just because its a sword and swords are more fun. Of course if I were getting level 245 gear, I'm sure there'd be melee weapons that look cool and have decent hunter stats, in which case I'd pass the sword up, but as far as I'm concerned, the melee slot is for melee because that's how I play. I don't give a **** about the numbers; as far as I'm concerned the problem is that the Hunter was designed with such a heavy emphasis on range in the first place.

Thankfully I found a class I like better anyhow.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I guess mages should start rolling on defense 1 hand swords, too.

Why not actually play a melee class if you like to melee, instead of half-assing it by meleeing with a hunter? A class clearly not designed to melee?

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

You'd be as effective meleeing as a mage.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Diamondeye:

Distracting Shot

Seriously, if Hunters weren't meant to use their abilities to kite, control, and otherwise keep a mob at Range, why the hell are we the only NON-tanking Class in the game with a direct taunt and fixate?

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Yes, I know we have distracting shot. I have found no use for it whatsoever in practice. The only thing I can imagine its any good for is to yank a mob off a healer if the tank cannot.

Obviously we were meant to control; hence our Ice traps. Control is not what we're discussing. Keeping a mob at range is likewise, not the issue; no one has said that ranged fighting is not the best choice. I don't know why you keep trying to imply that I'm saying melee is somehow superior to ranged fighting most of the time; I'm not. I'm saying it's better than **** around running all over the place to avoid meleeing for less than 20 seconds, and it's necessary to have your melee skills maxed if for no other reason than to wing clip in melee.

By your own example of the Rhok'Delar quest and "we're meant to kite because we have Distracting Shot" then we're meant to melee because we've got no less than 4 possible melee abilities, and even if they do get rid of 2 in Cata, by your own admission at least 2 will remain.



Hunters are much more effective in melee than mages. Is there some reason you're engaging in such absurd levels of hyperbole?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Why not actually read what I'm saying and respond to that instead of to a strawman? Oh wait, that's right. It's a lot easier to just say "hur hur DE wants Hunters to melee" than it is to address what I actually said.

A) I do play a melee class; I've said at least twice here that I like Death Knights better and that's mainly what I play now, far more than a Hunter anymore
B) I never did play a Hunter in order to melee, and I haven't advocated that people should. I've said there are situations where you need to melee, especially soloing and in pvp, and I see not advantage at all in kiting and running and jumping all over the place just to avoid melee just for the sake of the sensibilities of all you Hunter purists out there.
C) I've repeatedly pointed out that there are plenty of melee weapons out there that are suitable for both melee AND for boosting ranged combat and these are the ones a Hunter should take.
D) A Hunter is designed to avoid melee most of the time, not at all costs. Like I pointed out we have at least 3, and possibly 4, melee abilities. Classes designed not to melee at all have ZERO. Clearly, our melee abilities are far weaker than our ranged ones, and ranged should be the method of engagement the vast majority of time, but if you finish off a mob in melee that's in no way better than a ton of screwing around just to avoid clicking Raptor Strike.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Amazingly, the game will not allow you to do that. When the Lich Blade or whatever it is drops off that one boss where you have to fight a bunch of mobs coming down the stairs to him, I can't roll for it on my DK because (suprise) spell power isn't a stat they use.

Yet Hunters do in fact use Stamina, Critical Strike, Hit Rating, and even to a degree, Strength.

Of course, you totally ignored where I pointed out that rather than choose between an obviously inferior weapon when you're getting level 245 gear, and an obviously inappropriate 2H Sword you could just wait until something better drops! Imagine that! Or you could wait and see if anyone else "needs" and if they don't, then "need" it.

I mean holy ****, we wouldn't want Hunters depriving anyone of a disenchant roll now, would we?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The more I read, this less fun this game actually sounds.

Or you could manage your agro and not pull the mob off your pet and not have to worry about meleeing at all.

Sure, my hunter's only 46, but I can count on one hand the amount of times that I've actually had to melee anything. If a mob turns and comes toward me, I've usually done something wrong. But, that's easily fixed with a disengage and a concussion shot. Gives my pet a few more seconds to reestablish agro. If that doesn't work, I can FD it off.

Also:

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Holy shitsnacks!

Arafys:

I use disengage to prevent myself from dying when grabbed by Valks. We ignore Valks on Hunters and Warlocks and Mages.

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Eh, at this point, its just as easy to kill the bloody things.

But we used the Lock circle thing on our first 10m kill.

Disengage is <3 though.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Arafys:

Well, to be honest, since we're rocking the Hard Modes Horde Side and 9/12 Alliance Side for Hard Modes ... They're a non-issue.

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We're 10/12 10m hard (Just need PP and LK) and then I can be Fys, Bane of the Fallen King

Just got Sindy on Friday.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Arafys:

Horde Side I have Bane of the Fallen King and Light of Dawn. Alliance Side we're 11/12 10 and 9/12 25.

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