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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:09 am 
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Eh, I got bumped up to Diamond on my ranking account and promptly lost 11 in a row. On my practice account, I'm still trading wins to cheese. I have trouble with Worker Rushes, since there are a couple of exploits there, like a force surround addon.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:16 am 
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I've only experienced a worker rush once, and that was in the practice league. He killed one of my workers, but while he was killing that one, I pulled the rest and ran away. He tried to chase but I just kept on booking it. He got bored after 15 minutes and left.

What's the *real* way to handle worker rushes?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:18 am 
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Eh, you out micro them or you out macro them. Either way. The problem is people can get surrounds on hovering units and stop them now.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 am 
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Uinan wrote:
I've only experienced a worker rush once, and that was in the practice league. He killed one of my workers, but while he was killing that one, I pulled the rest and ran away. He tried to chase but I just kept on booking it. He got bored after 15 minutes and left.

What's the *real* way to handle worker rushes?


Oh man that's funny. I've never been worker rushed. They just come at you with their starting 6-10 workers or build up a few? I guess just be sure to have more workers than them and fight it out! Oh for protoss I'd probably stick and move, hit him then let my shields recharge by running around. Oh the humanity.

As they fight pull back the ones getting hurt the worst, then send them back and you'd most likely win.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:42 am 
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Uinan wrote:
I'm pulling away from my win one, lose won ratio. Currently I've pulled myself up to 13th in my ladder, with 40 wins & 31 losses. It's not great, but better then I'd of thought I'd be capable of.

Just to note, your win loss ratio is essentially meaningless. Your actual rank factors in who you're winning and losing to, and the matchmaking system attempts to match you in such a way that it expects you to maintain a 50% win rate (that is, as your win ratio drifts high, it more consistently seeks higher placed opponents in order to give you some losses).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:45 am 
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Dash wrote:
Uinan wrote:
I've only experienced a worker rush once, and that was in the practice league. He killed one of my workers, but while he was killing that one, I pulled the rest and ran away. He tried to chase but I just kept on booking it. He got bored after 15 minutes and left.

What's the *real* way to handle worker rushes?


Oh man that's funny. I've never been worker rushed. They just come at you with their starting 6-10 workers or build up a few? I guess just be sure to have more workers than them and fight it out! Oh for protoss I'd probably stick and move, hit him then let my shields recharge by running around. Oh the humanity.

As they fight pull back the ones getting hurt the worst, then send them back and you'd most likely win.


Yeah, at least when I experienced it, instead of selecting his 6 workers & sending them to mine? He sent them all for my base with one additional one being made with the starting minerals. It was annoying.

@Kaffis,

Yeah I figured that. My win loss ratio is just something that's meaningful to myself. I never really expected to climb UP TO a .500 w/l, much less climb above it. Just an accomplishment that made me happy with my progress.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:09 am 
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40 and 31 is a very good record, better than I'm doing. Do you feel like your play is improving? I think that's the main thing. I bet you'll get promoted and have to deal with less stupid stuff like worker rushes in Silver.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:39 am 
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A 7 Probe Rush with good micro is nearly unbeatable is the problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:41 am 
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Dash wrote:
40 and 31 is a very good record, better than I'm doing. Do you feel like your play is improving? I think that's the main thing. I bet you'll get promoted and have to deal with less stupid stuff like worker rushes in Silver.


I definitely feel like my play is improving. It seems like the more I remember to do the simple things, the easier the wins come. It's like that mental check list Day9 talked about in that video on page 1.

I'm learning valuable info from scouting, I'm knowing what works against which units, etc. Typically if I lose, I've either really brain farted, or some cheese has gotten me, which admittedly is likely a brain fart of mine as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Welp, done with StarCraft II ...

5 Consecutive Losses


Loss 1: 100 Zealots storm my base at 3:19 game time.
Loss 2: Terran storms my base with 10 Vikings and 20 Marauders at 4:27 game time.
Loss 3: Zerg Player Snipes my Expansion the second it lands on an island at 4:18 Game Time with an Overseer Drop.
Loss 4: Protoss Player Attacks my Base with 10 DTs. I have 2 Ravens, 10 Missile Turrets. Protoss Players DT's are never attackable or uncloak.
Loss 5: Protoss Player continues to fly Warp prisms over Turrets without triggering their attack.

The Hacks are in full force. Done with the game.


That's crazy. Any chance Blizzard will close some of these holes?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:45 am 
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You must attract that kind of person, Khross. :(

Ugh, random 2v2 is too frustrating to partake in...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:18 am 
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Khross what are you in, silver, gold, platinum? Just curious.


Anyways...


I've gotten to the point of boredom with Terran. I am best with Terran...I'm still not great, but I'm good enough to get by. I ranked Silver...been practicing build orders against bots and a friend has been 1v1ing me and 2v2ing with me.

I've come to the conclusion that although I understand Terran, Protoss is much cooler. Terran is great, but I find the units, although straight-forward and very powerful, are just too damn slow. It's harder to expand and to defend expansions. It's harder to pay attention to all the building addons and SCVs and repairing, etc. Also, I hate the fact that the supply's are static and don't offer anything. At least with the other races they provide some other benefit...also, SCVs are a pain in the arse. With protoss, the workers are fast and easy, with SCVs you have to have 1 per build and queue them up to move back to gathering, or whatever. Protoss, you just click click click. Zerg, you just click and forget, cause the drone disappears.

I've also been working on my macro and hotkey setup recently...it is helping immensely. Overall, I think Protoss has some of the coolest stuff in the game. Both Zerg and Protoss can basically warp units instantly across the map.

Other huge pluses for Protoss that Terran doesn't have, for me, is the fact that their units are more powerful and seem more versatile...if not for the simple fact that the stalker attacks both ground AND air. With Terran, the only low tech unit that you'll have a lot of to do that is marines...which are great, my favorite Terran unit, they're so amazing in tight formations, but that make's them very susceptible to tank, baneling and any other kind of splash damage. Terrans are a giant pain in the *** also because you have to manage addons for buildings. There's so many little things to do with Terrans that have to do with managing workers and buildings...that's boring as hell and tedious. I'd rather manage something cooler. About the air/ground attacks, the air units for Terran's piss me off. I wanna be fast and mobile, the air units are fast. Tanks and Thors are hella slow....Helions are great but they're weak as hell and it's better to build tanks/thors and have other units back them up

So..Protoss, I like them. I miss marines, definitely...I think zealots are slow as hell and I hate that they're melee only. I really do miss the marines. Everything else about Protoss is better than Terran, though...for my playstyle. In fact, if I play Protoss like I play Terran, I do better early game.

Despite loving Protoss so much...I really want to learn Zerg.

Why, you ask? Simplicity of my hotkey / macro setup. Everything is at the hatchery(s). No need to select specific buildings to build units.

My hotkeys are as follows.

1: main army
2: 1st scouting overlord (to be replaced as needed later on...usually with more units that need to be micro'd or are a part of a separate army, like Muta's to harrass)
3: queen
4: main hatchery
5: 1st expansion hatchery


5 hotkeys are enough for me.

Also another reason I'm going zerg is because it will teach me better macro and economy management.

To me, Zerg is actually the hardest race to use, because the units are so weak, but I think that's because I suck at macro / hotkeys and making sure I spend all my resources. As Zerg, lack of macromanagement hurts more than it does with the other races. I like Zerg because the units move SO FAST. More often than not, as Terran (and much less often, Protoss) I'm in a situation where my units are in one place and need to be in another...Zerg units move incredibly fast (except for Hydralisks .../mourn speed upgrade) and are fun to learn to harass. They also seem like the trickiest race. Well...this is my opinion before really getting to play Zerg more than a handful of times.


So to recap...the reasons I'm going Zerg is:

1. fast / cheap buildtimes and fast units
2. it will force me to learn macro better.
3. terran is too damn defensive and boring and tedious
4. they're just freakin' cool and I like to be able to harass, especially early/mid game.
5. I love protoss but I think learning zerg will teach me a lot
6. everything is built at the hatchery...don't have to waste time clicking buildings, fussing with tabbing through buildings and wasting a hotkey on buildings.
7. i hate having to manage mules and chrono boost....at least with the queen she does other stuff, too...
8. the dude I usually play with sucks at zerg too, and he plays protoss. protoss seems good vs terran, and weak vs zerg...so if I learn zerg, another benefit.





been checkin that out...and the 6/8pool zergling rush and 12 pool speedling rush (with extractor trick...not sure if it's faster than 10 pool speedling rush or not...probably still slower but more sustainable because of faster gathering).


Also been watchin a lot of zerg replays by Psy.


Anyways....wish me luck with Zerg...if anyone's got any advice, I'm all ears.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Nevandal wrote:
Khross what are you in, silver, gold, platinum? Just curious.


Anyways...


I've gotten to the point of boredom with Terran. I am best with Terran...I'm still not great, but I'm good enough to get by. I ranked Silver...been practicing build orders against bots and a friend has been 1v1ing me and 2v2ing with me.

I've come to the conclusion that although I understand Terran, Protoss is much cooler. Terran is great, but I find the units, although straight-forward and very powerful, are just too damn slow. It's harder to expand and to defend expansions. It's harder to pay attention to all the building addons and SCVs and repairing, etc. Also, I hate the fact that the supply's are static and don't offer anything. At least with the other races they provide some other benefit...also, SCVs are a pain in the arse. With protoss, the workers are fast and easy, with SCVs you have to have 1 per build and queue them up to move back to gathering, or whatever. Protoss, you just click click click. Zerg, you just click and forget, cause the drone disappears.

I've also been working on my macro and hotkey setup recently...it is helping immensely. Overall, I think Protoss has some of the coolest stuff in the game. Both Zerg and Protoss can basically warp units instantly across the map.

Other huge pluses for Protoss that Terran doesn't have, for me, is the fact that their units are more powerful and seem more versatile...if not for the simple fact that the stalker attacks both ground AND air. With Terran, the only low tech unit that you'll have a lot of to do that is marines...which are great, my favorite Terran unit, they're so amazing in tight formations, but that make's them very susceptible to tank, baneling and any other kind of splash damage. Terrans are a giant pain in the *** also because you have to manage addons for buildings. There's so many little things to do with Terrans that have to do with managing workers and buildings...that's boring as hell and tedious. I'd rather manage something cooler. About the air/ground attacks, the air units for Terran's piss me off. I wanna be fast and mobile, the air units are fast. Tanks and Thors are hella slow....Helions are great but they're weak as hell and it's better to build tanks/thors and have other units back them up

So..Protoss, I like them. I miss marines, definitely...I think zealots are slow as hell and I hate that they're melee only. I really do miss the marines. Everything else about Protoss is better than Terran, though...for my playstyle. In fact, if I play Protoss like I play Terran, I do better early game.


I disliek playing Zerg intensely but I'm right with you on Protss v. Terran. I like Terran a lot viscerally but actually managing them I find quite difficult, especially moving from infantry up to air since there are no intervening antiair units. The only thing close is the Thor and that's basically at the same level as air units because you need an armory and they're exspensive. Protoss is much more my playstyle with the individually powerful, versatile units. The only Protoss unit I'm not crazy about is the Zealot and even that is basically just because I mainly only use them early and then go to stalkers.

I would point out that supply depots do serve as a defensive structure of sorts at chokepoints and much more usefully now that they can be raised and lowered and that they are pretty efficient in terms of resources with "Call down supply". That's a limited benefit since you don't want to be trapped into turtling, but early on it's essential to stopping a rush. Getting building armor helps it too later on against a ground-oriented enemy. At the very least, it makes your enemy deal with getting past the barrier.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Yeah...I usually wall off my base with a supply depot or two and the first barracks....but then you gotta manage raising and lowering them. Lol. Another thing about Terran is they don't have a lower tier air unit that attacks air and ground. The viking does, but you gotta switch between fighter and assault mode.

Another great thing about toss and zerg is that their shields / life regenerate, respectively.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:38 pm 
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I've noticed that SCVs will now repair allied protoss mechanicals. The original starcraft didn't allow that.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:08 pm 
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I think Medevacs will heal Zealots too, and allied Zerg units.

Although Terran units don't regenerate, repair or healing is a lot faster than Zerg or Protoss regen.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:32 pm 
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If only Marauders could also attack air...then I might enjoy playing Terran a lot more...but as it stands, that, combined with the fact that the units move slow and all the little things like SCVs, addons and difficult to defend expansions...Ugh. I'm definitely moving away from Terran for a while.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Nevandal wrote:
If only Marauders could also attack air...then I might enjoy playing Terran a lot more...but as it stands, that, combined with the fact that the units move slow and all the little things like SCVs, addons and difficult to defend expansions...Ugh. I'm definitely moving away from Terran for a while.


I just have to laugh. Ground mech might be a tad slow, but your bio ball is one of the fastest things in the game. Stimpack and medievacs make moving around as terran stupidly quick. And Marauders are the single most overpowered unit in the entire game.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Laugh all you want. I love marine/marauder/medivac play.

I'm just annoyed by the fact that Terran is good at slow moving ground units as far as anti-air is concerned, not counting marines. Like I said before...I LOVE marines.

Thors are great anti-air but they're too damn slow for my personal taste (they're great when used right, though) and as far as I'm concerned the Terran air units are more situational than the other races. I think Terrans are kind of gimped vs air (again, not counting marines, because marines freaking own).

I still love Terran...I'm just ready for a change from the slow moving glass cannon type of play with hard to defend expansions. I mean, Terrans, to me, are really really defensive until you want to push out, then they're like a glass cannon for a lot of pushes (especially with tanks) but then that leaves the expansions / bases difficult to defend.....I can't decide if I want to learn Protoss or Zerg first. Zerg is so damn fast and mobile but...Protoss...<3 Protoss...I go through my phases.

Honestly, I really need to work on my macro; making sure I spend my resources correctly and not getting supply capped and learning to manage expansions while attacking/harassing. I also suck at scouting...so yeah, what really needs to happen is work on my macro more than anything, no matter which race I play.

Watch what will really happen is I'll learn 'toss, learn zerg and eventually come back to Terran and own everything with them. *shrug*

I still hate Marauders, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Talya wrote:
I've noticed that SCVs will now repair allied protoss mechanicals. The original starcraft didn't allow that.

The original Starcraft didn't classify mechanical units. Things were either biological (able to be medic healed) or not. Terran things that were not biological could be SCV repaired.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I think Medevacs will heal Zealots too, and allied Zerg units.

Although Terran units don't regenerate, repair or healing is a lot faster than Zerg or Protoss regen.

But repair is tough to manage in the field, as SCVs are horrible front-line units. Also, speed of shield/zerg regeneration isn't the benefit -- the benefit is that you don't have to haul around vulnerable units in order to make your pulling of wounded units out of the line of fire equal a healthy force when the next wave comes.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:25 pm 
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SCVs do just fine on the front lines. Unless you specifically target them, SCVs won't be attacked unless they are the only units left or if they get hit with splash damage. They are easily hidden by Thor's and flying units as well.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:27 pm 
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They're a pain in the *** to manage, though. Between that and splash damage.. blech.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Meh. Just autocast repair and forget about them.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:39 am 
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Wow....I gotta say 4 warpgates with proxy pylons = amazingly easy way to start kicking *** as protoss.

I love it.


I can instantly make units anywhere I put a pylon....how is this not amazing? Hahaha.



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