The Glade 4.0

Ahhh, yes, here come the ad hominems. No I am not a liar and I have not "been caught in such things before". I know better than to demand you cite any instances of such, as they don't exist,so I won't bother.



First go here:
Wiley
Then click the Athens option.




Prove it, with more than your opinion.



Yet, you continue to use the numbers for pedophilia and sexual abuse of children interchangeably.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Wait - when did this become about religion? It's about human nature ... behavior, instinct, etc.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

If credibility with you was of any value to me whatsoever, this post might concern me.

I don't excuse religion, just like I don't excuse the rest of humanity. It's my opinion that singling out one segment, when humanity is quite capable of inhumanity, is the mark of prejudice, and you admitted to prejudice a few posts back.

And it's "compliment". Though I didn't compliment you. But whatever.

To the rest of us it is about the vagaries of human nature. For those with their own tuagh to grind it's always about those damn Catholics primarily and religion as a whole second.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

You're fortunate for several board wipes. Anyway, the link doesn't work. Password protected you see, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Wait, no I won't.


I don't see how you can say that....the figures mentioned in either case are only representative of those who sexually abuse children (and then, only those who get caught). There is no way to determine how many are pedophiles who do NOT eventually sexually abuse children. (If one believes such an animal commonly exists at all, that is. Which I don't.) Of course, the church figures of 1.5-5% of clergy is also only talking about those who abuse children. I really don't believe the specifics of the underlying psychological condition are relevant here, anyway. I don't care whether the boy-buggering bishop is actually a clinical pedophile.



Dad's not wrong about the Catholic Church, or the havok they have wrought on Northern Ireland. His mistake is assuming his church is any different in a meaningful way.



As a gleeful misanthropist, I have very little but contempt for humanity as a whole, and in particular, human organizational structures. I have on several occasions demonstrated my disappointment with humanity in general, and everyone here who has paid attention will verify I lump religion right up there with government, big corporations, and even trade unions. They're all just means by which humans attempt to dominate and control each other, and worse yet, large organizational structures take on metapersonalities, independant of the views of those who compose them. All too often, those metapersonalities are at best sociopathic, while at worst utterly villainous. My lone concession is that we need at least a little government. We don't need the rest of them, not in their current forms. But here we are discussing the Catholic Church, not humanity as a whole. If the Church is reprehensible, it is reprehensible. We don't need to compare it to other churches or organizations or society at large to find out how reprehensible it is relative to the rest of you buggers*. Its relative moral standing cannot excuse it. (Though it can certainly condemn it.)

* "you buggers" referring to the unwashed masses of idiots that the world is primarily populated with.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

This might be my most successful Hellfire thread ever.

In terms of pagecount at least, you're doing well.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yeah, but starting a religion thread is kind of cheating, or should at least have the page count handicapped or something.

Yup, I'm sure that if your memory was that clear about it someone else would confirm such instances of my ""been caught in such things before". No, it is because of "board wipes" not "Taly making **** up".



Yup, because The All Knowing Taly doesn't have access, then no one does.


I can say that because I've presented the percentage of the population that are pedophiles (3%-9%), as well as the percentage of Catholic priests (.03%), you gave the numbers of child sexual abusers who were Catholic priests (1.5-5%), what's the percentage of the general population that sexually abuses children? Since no one has give that number, and you've presented the number for Catholic priests what are you comparing it to?

Edit: I've since realized The Journal of Sexual Medicine study's subjects were located in Germany, so it's not appropriate for a comparison.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

You mean the percentage of catholic priests who are child abusers...

Roll your d20. If you roll a one, your cleric might get to bugger boys.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Here's some more:



http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6.htm
(sources given in the essay)

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Wow some actual research.



Abuse children and youths /= abusive pedophiles. Not apples to apples.

How about we continue from the same article:

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Some of us choose celibacy when we withdraw from the world. The older you get the less strong the imperative, and has been mentioned before low testosterone levels in men lead to a diminished sex drive.

There are plenty of good men in the clergy (at least 94% by the figures above) that dedicate their lives to God and choose to honor their vows of celibacy. Yet within every cassock you see a child raping monster.

You sirs, who believe and spread this libel, this scurrilous debasement of a religious calling, are the monsters. You are merely the latest wave of evil scoundrels who seek to discredit those who choose to do the greater good because they are not like you. You would bring all of humanity down to and below your own level rather than admit there are some men in control of their baser instincts.

You have lost all credibility with me. Nothing you say can be taken as honest, from this point henceforth.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I am taking major offense to this. Who fed the people in Louisiana during the oil spill? How many schools did the Catholic Church build last year worldwide? How many orphanages did the Catholic Church run over the past 200 years? How many people have priests counselled out of suicide, murder, rape and theft?

Canadians burn books, rape people, abuse children therefore Canada is bad for the world. Get off your damn high horse.

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You can't excuse the millenia of still ongoing harm with a few acts of charity (using money they mostly stole to begin with). As Stephen Fry quite aptly put it, such arguments are like a thief in front of a judge saying, "I don't know why you keep bringing the burglary into this. I help my dad cross the street in the mornings." Religion is wholely "evil." I'm sorry if you take offense at that, but it doesn't make that wicked institution any better, nor does it make your god any more real.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Like I said earlier, the clinical definition of pedophilia does not matter. I don't care whether the boy-buggering bishop fits the actual definition of "pedophile" or not. It doesn't matter what they are. It matters what they do.



Which is still 50% higher than the 2% of adult males in general which do the same thing.



Gee, it's not like I said the vast majority of priests are not involved in this earlier, is it? Or did you miss that?


Yeah, but once again, that doesn't matter. Whether he's 17 or 5, it's still raping children.


... are you trying to use the irrelevant clinical definition once again? STOP TRYING TO MOVE THE GOALPOSTS. We are not discussing how many priests get hardons looking at little boys. We're talking about how many priests use those hardons on people under the age of consent.

And then you're still missing the biggest crime in all this -- it's not that some freak perverts managed to sneak by the screening process and commit these terrible acts. It's that the catholic church as an institution has for centuries engaged in a coverup process, doing its best to prevent these abuses from being common knowledge and sheltering the men who did it. Even if, against the evidence, priests are less likely to abuse boys than men in the general populace, the systemic protection and absolution these monsters have gotten from an organization that is supposed to exist for the salvation of its followers is heinous. Only in very recent years, with the massive outcry and publicity, have they been forced to at least pay lip-service to justice, but they still do their best to sweep it all under the rug and deny it has ever been a problem. There can be no forgiveness for this. As an organization, the church is wholely reprehensible, and utterly without "goodness."

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Actually, we were talking about the possibility of celibacy being a contributing factor to pedophilia. You moved the posts and made it about religion in an effort to condemn the Catholic Church.

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In time, this too shall pass.

To whom is this comment directed, Micheal?

I'll repeat the source you presented:

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I totally disagree with that statement, Talya (and with the general ire you're expressing toward the Catholic Church as a whole, but that's a tangential discussion I'm not involved in anyway, so 'nuff said). There's a very big difference between attraction to and sex with a 17 year old and attraction to and sex with a 5 year old, both in terms of the psychology of the adult and the impact on the minor. Conflating the two just muddies the waters of what's going on.

And yet they have an even-to-300% rate of abusing boys.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Once again, the psychology does not matter here. I don't care whether you diddle toddlers or abuse your "god-given" authority to rape teenagers, either way you should have your nuts chewed on by a pitbull before being converted to pig-food, along with anyone who protects you.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Well, the psychology matters a great deal when seeking a solution to the problem. If a priest is attracted to 5 year old boys, he's a pedophile and he can never, in any context or under any circumstance, satisfy his sexual urges without committing abuse. On the other hand, if a priest is attracted to 17 year old boys, chances are decent that he may simply be gay, and thus he can find non-abusive outlets for his sex drive. Personally, I suspect much of the abuse by Catholic priests likely falls into the latter category, which is why I tend to think the celibacy and anti-homosexuality doctrines of the Church contributed to it.

I've got a solution to the problem...

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █